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when you're looking at/thinking about bellydance, what in your mind goes "this is a little 'tribaret', yes?"
i've seen some people say that "tribaret" is a cop-out in case you don't use correct "style-specific" technique. i don't necessarily agree with that =p i've also seen arguments that putting on tribal gear and then just dancing cabaret isn't quite "enough"
thoughts?
i've seen some people say that "tribaret" is a cop-out in case you don't use correct "style-specific" technique. i don't necessarily agree with that =p i've also seen arguments that putting on tribal gear and then just dancing cabaret isn't quite "enough"
thoughts?
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Omaha
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Mon, February 9, 2009 - 6:31 AMPersonally, I think "tribaret" is a costume style, not a dance style. So, as far as that goes, I think it's when you fuse the 2 styles on costuming. For instance, wearing a choli & 15-yard tiered skirt (tribal), but accessorizing with a glass-beaded fringe belt, sequins & rhinestones (cabaret). -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Mon, February 9, 2009 - 9:38 AMMaybe it's a little bit of both costume style and dance style plus an attitude. Maybe it's defined by what it's not - not Egyptian, not Tribal, closer to American Cabaret style belly dance, but not that, either.
I didn't watch all of the clips posted but a lot of them looked like "tribal fusion" to me. To me tribaret would be not all tribal and not all cabaret. -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Tue, February 10, 2009 - 3:57 AM"Maybe it's a little bit of both costume style and dance style plus an attitude"
I agree with Dunyah.
I post a lot of clips that maybe look more
one style than a another but I put them up here cause they are labeled Tribaret
and I don't judge anyone saying they are or aren't.
I just like to show what others do and label it Tribaret
We all have our own vision and view
and who's to say its wrong or right?
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Tue, February 10, 2009 - 8:49 AMI also seem to see alot of Tribal Fusion images (not just here) labeled "Tribaret", but I am just not seeing it. I wonder if some individuals call it Tribaret because it has more "bling" to it than ATS style tribal?
To me, tribal fusion has a certain visual aesthetic, unique to itself, just as a more traditional style of tribal has its own look and style. I would call neither Tribaret (though certainly there could be somethings that COULD swing that way. . . ).
Tribaret to me evokes more of an "old school" cabaret image. . . real coin bras and belts paired with a chiffon circle skirt would be Tribaret in my mind. Likewise, some of the Bella costumes that combine kuchi pieces with more glitzy rhinestones and glass beadwork are Tribaret. Also, costumes like Sandra's harem pants and coins, that one is VERY Tribaret (from my perspective).
I also think there should be something in the dance style that points to a Tribaret feel - and again, this comes from those old school American Cabaret roots. . . energetic, passionate, perhaps not something as "polished" as a contemporary Egyptian piece would be, something that contains both the earthiness of Tribal (be it in an ATS way or more proto-tribal like Bal Anat) and some of the flow and floatiness of some of the Cabaret dance styles.
Just my two cents, of course.
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Wed, February 11, 2009 - 6:47 AMI agree, there's no point in using "tribaret" as a catch all the way "tribal fusion" is, or even just the word "fusion". The only time I used the term "tribaret" was for a performance that combined both cabaret style dancing (choreography) with lead & follow dancing, while we were wearing cabaret style outfits, but metal bras & belts, and tribal hair decorations. I felt that was fusing the two styles...
Maybe it's easier just to link to the clip - www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Fri, February 13, 2009 - 12:41 PMSince we're posting clips, what about this one:
www.youtube.com/watch
Costuming-wise, we're definitely not tribal/tribal fusion. We've got sequins and sparkles, though the costuming is definitely not Oriental. So that could be the glamour/ "-aret" part. But we're mixing choreography with improv, hence the "trib-" part? -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Mon, February 23, 2009 - 6:16 AMThat was really nice! I think the costume look & the music are very "orientalist". So unique, & well done too.
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Mon, February 23, 2009 - 2:16 PMI have been thinking about this thread a lot and I think to discuss what Tribaret is you have to also discuss what the other styles are in order to put it in context.
The way I see it each style has 4 things that set them apart from the others:
1) Music
2) Costuming
3) Movement
4) Group Dynamics
So first we have to figure what those four things are for each one; American Cabaret, Egyptian Cabaret, American Tribal, Tribal Fusion. Now I am new to this so feel free to correct me if I have any part of this wrong.
American Cabaret:
1) Traditional Middle Eastern
2) Sparkly, professional costumes with expensive beading etc.
3) Mainly Turkish and Egyptian with influences from Lebanon, North Africa, Greece, India, etc.
4) Usually solo but will perform in troupes in public settings.
Egyptian Cabaret:
1) Egyptian instrumental/orchestral
2) Sparkly, professional costumes with expensive beading etc.
3) Emphasize the hips with layering. Minimal hand movements.
4) Solo artists, always choreographed.
American Tribal:
1) Ethnic or folk flavor with a steady predictable beat.
2) Ethnic appearing. Doesn't have to be authentic just look like it could be.
3) Mostly flat footed, large movements from the waist up, high arm position.
4) Group performances
Tribal Fusion:
1) Middle eastern "flavor", industrial, or goth. Synthesized.
2) Dark and dramatic.
3) Infuses hip-hop, Jazz, Latin,etc. More emphasis on the arms and movement.
4) Solo and choreographed group performances.
So assuming I have all that right here is what I see when I see Tribaret:
1) Middle eastern traditional, modern (Arab pop), or flavored/related.
2) "old school" cabaret (thanks Basina), showy but not glitzy.
3) Large and small gestures. Use of arms as well as layering.
4) Solo and choreographed group performances.
All in all it seems to me that with the emphasis by artists in the Bellydance community on keeping the purity of the art form in each of the styles, styles that reflect the culture from which they originate there is a desire to express our own culture in the dance as well. If we are not allowed to do that in other styles we will make our own and since America has always been a melting pot the dance will reflect that as well. -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Tue, February 24, 2009 - 6:44 AMHow interesting! I love "figuring things out" like this, just for fun. Overall it looks pretty good -
I don't really know Tribal Fusion so will skip that one, but on Eg.Cab., it's not always choreographed - at least, that's how it looks to me. Hard to know sometimes.
And in Tribaret, in my use of the term anyway, it mixed chor. & group improv (that was one of my reasons for using the term).
Looking forward to hearing what others think about the lists - -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Tue, February 24, 2009 - 10:00 AMI don't know about in the US but I read an article that said in Egypt they always choreograph. I suppose there could be exceptions especially outside of Egypt so maybe that should be "usually choreographed".
As for group improve... I'm not sure. It seems to me that American Tribal has one thing that really sets them apart and that's the cued group improve. Sooo.. I think if as a group you did a piece that was choreographed and then another that was group improve you're not necessarily doing Tribaret, instead you just did a piece that was American Tribal and one that wasn't. Who said we have to stick to one style in a single performance anyway?
But... if you used both choreography and group improve in the same piece (rather then performance) then I could see that being Tribaret.
The more I think about it the more I think Tribaret is really the "new" Classic Cabaret. Think about it, American Cabaret came about because there wasn't people saying "you must do it like this" or teachers who could explain what was and was not authentic so they just learned it all (including the fantasy elements like veil work) and combined it into one performance. So now, for whatever reason, it is happening again but this time we have two new styles (American Tribal & Tribal Fusion) being incorporated so the result is going to be different that before.
Maybe it's no coincidence that the costuming style can be described as Classic/"old school" Cabaret.
All that said with the addition, Tribaret:
1) Middle eastern traditional, modern (Arab pop), or flavored/related.
2) "old school" cabaret (thanks Basina), showy but not glitzy.
3) Large and small gestures. Use of arms as well as layering.
4) Solo and choreographed group performances (some cued group improv). -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Tue, February 24, 2009 - 10:42 AMAre you sure they always choreograph in Egypt? Or is that something a little more modern? I was under the impression that a lot of Egyptian Dance should be improv, that it was more a Western thing to choreograph. I do think more modern dancers like Randa Kamal may choreograph...but I'm not sure. Then again, Randa shows a lot more western influence in her dancing. -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Tue, February 24, 2009 - 11:39 AMLet me check on that....
.... so of course now I can't find the article. The closest I found was on Shira.net;
"Even for solo dancing, the complexity of classical Egyptian music with its frequent rhythm shifts makes it advisable to use choreography to interpret the many layers and subtleties. This is especially appropriate when dancing to a song that the performer is inexperienced in using. Even top professionals in Egypt regularly use choreography rather than improvisation for their shows. Some dancers will choreograph the primary melody sections, but leave the improvised solo instrumental segments unstructured for spontaneous dancing."
The article I read before specified that the "professional" dancers in Egypt (currently) always choreograph. I suppose that means as opposed to club dancers? Wish I could find it.
Well that definitely needs to be changed to "usually choreographed". lol to bad I can't edit it, so... (re-posting)
Egyptian Cabaret:
1) Egyptian instrumental/orchestral
2) Sparkly, professional costumes with expensive beading etc.
3) Emphasize the hips with layering. Minimal hand movements.
4) Solo artists, usually choreographed.
American Cabaret:
1) Traditional Middle Eastern
2) Sparkly, professional costumes with expensive beading etc.
3) Mainly Turkish and Egyptian with influences from Lebanon, North Africa, Greece, India, etc.
4) Usually solo but will perform in troupes in public settings.
American Tribal:
1) Ethnic or folk flavor with a steady predictable beat.
2) Ethnic appearing. Doesn't have to be authentic just look like it could be.
3) Mostly flat footed, large movements from the waist up, high arm position.
4) Group performances, cued improv.
Tribal Fusion:
1) Middle eastern "flavor", industrial, or goth. Synthesized.
2) Dark and dramatic.
3) Infuses hip-hop, Jazz, Latin,etc. More emphasis on the arms and movement.
4) Solo and choreographed group performances.
Tribaret:
1) Middle eastern traditional, modern (Arab pop), or flavored/related.
2) "old school" cabaret (thanks Basina), showy but not glitzy.
3) Large and small gestures. Use of arms as well as layering.
4) Solo and choreographed group performances (some cued group improv).
Any other changes we need to make? (I love doing stuff like this too. :) ) -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Wed, February 25, 2009 - 6:22 AMStill digressing... (if we like stuff like this does that make us dance nerds?)
I think many top Eg. dancers have their dances choreographed FOR them - but maybe we need to get into what era of Eg. dance we're talking about - there's sure lots of old & older movies where the dancing sure doesn't LOOK choreographed...
another thought, what about that weird carny-type music some dancers are using now? for tribal fusion that is? I think - ! -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Wed, February 25, 2009 - 9:26 AM(It probably does. lol )
I was thinking of currently, I am too new to the dance to know the historical side of any style outside of the thousand and one articles on the history of American Cabaret. Maybe someone else can tell us about choreography in Egyptian dance?
I believe the carny music is part of Tribal Fusion. It is... interesting isn't it? I'm not sure it could be successfully used in Tribaret, it's just so unique that you really need the whole package, costuming, attitude, to go with it that puts it firmly in the Tribal Fusion section. Just my opinion.
What about new age music? I keep hearing about people dancing to Loreena McKennitt, what style would that be appropriate with? -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Wed, February 25, 2009 - 5:16 PMThe carnival music is very tribal fusion, going for that old-timey Vaudeville or almost circus attitude. I think it would be harder to use in Tribaret, unless it's wrapped up in a more old-world glamor feel, a la French Cabaret/ Moulin Rougue.
I've seen both tribal and cabaret dancers use Loreena McKennitt. There's one song in particular that has a very oriental sound to it. But there's also a small Celtic Belly Dance offshoot. I think New Age can go either way. It can be very tribal, but I think could be used in some more theatrical (maybe sword or veil routines) in Cabaret or Tribaret. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Sun, September 6, 2009 - 12:07 PMIve seen a Mira Betz piece, on one of my performance videos for fusion, labled "tribaret".
Now, im not sure if she labled it that way or the dvd "people" did,.
but when i hear that term, i think of her. -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 5:12 PMis it the one called "Bound"?
i didn't know WHAT to call that, but considering what everyone else has said, with the music, movement and costuming i guess it is a perfect example of Tribaret! i have seen her live also, and yep, Tribaret fits.
(ps, i love that piece, it made me cry the first time i saw it - she seemed to be dancing out my entire love life in four minutes. and she is a really good teacher too - once i recovered from my few minutes of being starstruck.)
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 5:09 PMLoreena is my fave artist! I always wanted to choreograph something to 'Marco Polo', and several other songs of hers. I love her music.
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 10:10 AMI think Tribaret is both a costume style and a fused technique style. For me, I think tribaret allows a dancer to really explore without limits and do things non traditionally. I think most people don't get this fusion, so they tend to say it just a tribal dancer doing cabaret (as you stated). A true tribaret dancer should be able to master both techniques and be able to present them in a beautiful way. This is just my opinion.
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 5:07 PMI don't agree with the "cop out" idea. I like the idea of combining both Cabaret and Tribal because I personally love both styles equally. I honestly can't decide which one I like better, and that pretty much goes for the costume style AND the dance styles. Why do we have to choose only one?? I really don't get why people have to be so judgmental. I think people should just do whatever suits their own personal taste, and go with whatever feels right in their heart. People can be so funny about stuff. Who's to say what's "correct" and what isn't? And frankly, who cares?! This is belly dance, not rocket science! LOL -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 5:13 PMi dunno... it can get really sketchy sometimes... layering a 3/4 shimmy over a full-on shimmy is kinda like violating laws of physics... ;) -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 9:35 PMhehehee
Ok, yeah, no kidding! ;)
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Tue, September 8, 2009 - 8:51 PMThey HAVE that?!? I wanna see!!! -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Thu, September 10, 2009 - 8:00 PMyea... i did a 3/4 over a full... it was just a 'speriment... but i could only hold it for about 10 seconds. gonna work on it tho. start the full-booty shimmy first (the jiggly-butt one), then work on adding the quick hip-snaps that make the 3/4 shimmy. it - looks - unreal!
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Fri, September 11, 2009 - 5:51 AMElle,
I just took time to re-read all the posts here and I'd like to say thank you to all who have posted. From everything I've read, I'm firmly planted in the world of *tribaret* and shouldn't feel like a *poser* when I whip out my brightly colored chiffon tiered skirts layered over satin "floofy" pantaloons worn with lush velvet crop tops and silk brocade vests ((think Dahlal Int'l *tribal*)) to dance to a classic Eqyptian dance instrumental.
:-0 ;-0 ;-0 -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Fri, September 11, 2009 - 5:54 AM...oops! forgot to add, I take classes in Eqyptian cabaret and study some ATS at home via dvds, etc....so my dance *style* blends the two. -
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Re: so what, in your opinion, makes tribaret?
Fri, September 11, 2009 - 10:45 PMthat parallels what i did for two years whilst in Italy... egyptian lessons in person, tribal fusion via DVD. and now that i am at uni for Dance, i am getting into Modern (which is really "relaxed ballet"), and i find that eating into the weird mix that was already going. and in Modern, i notice even more my body want's to go back to Aikido, and my dance choreo's end up looking like a kata - "attaaaaack!". whatever, people like it. i'm fairly content.
are you happy with what you are dancing? - if you are, keep going, and yay for you!
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